DKP IDEA Please Comment

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DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Zillaana on Fri May 16, 2008 3:27 am

Overview

DKP is awarded on a point basis. Generally, only 25-man content from SSC/TK onwards will award DKP if you attend a raid, down a boss, be on-time and/or perform exceptionally well in a raid. T5 (SSC/TK) and T6 (MH/BT) items belong to different DKP groups, i.e. you can not use T5 DKP to get T6 items and vice versa.

Current DKP system
- 1 DKP per hour
- 1 DKP per boss down (except Gruul's/Mag's Lair)
- 1 DKP for being ready
- 2 DKP for first kill

Raid Signups
25-man raids will be posted at least a week in advance and there will be ample notice about when the next one is. Invites will start approx. 30 min before the raid does. The majority of the raid should be zoned, repaired and have all their consumables 15 min prior to the pull (This will ear you 1dkp for being ready).

In the event that you do not sign up for the raid, yet show up to attend, you will not accrue the DKP for raid attendance.

Awarding of bonus DKP
Do note that it is at the Raid Leader's discretion to award additional DKP to a raid which has done exceptionally well (e.g. fast clearing of trash mobs, all bosses 1-shotted). This is an incentive to spur raiders to perform at high standards consistently instead of wasting time wiping to get their gear warmed-up.

Milestone Achievement Bonus DKP will also be awarded for significant milestones made. This DKP will be awarded to the next level's DKP Group, i.e. when we down Vashj, a MAB DKP will be award to each person in the raid in their T6 DKP Group.

*Penalties*
It is up to the RL/ARLs' discretion to deduct points from a raider that is seen being intentionally disruptive to the raid and/or causing wipes on bosses on farm.
If you signed up as being available for a raid, yet failed to show up on that day itself, without informing anyone that you are not able to make it, 3 DKP will be deducted from that DKP pool.
For Magtheridon and Gruul (where dkp is not used for loot) a 2 dkp penalty will be deducted for no-shows.

Items
DKP item costs are listed in the webDKP page. An item that is not PVE-oriented (more PVP, e.g. with resilience) will probably have its item value lowered to 50% (rounded down to the nearest whole number).

*Latecomers/Early leavers*
You, the raider should /w whoever's doing DKP that day when you JOIN the raid (that means when the invite to the raid pops up, not when you get subbed in), or when you leave the raid (for whatever reasons, just state your reason).

Simply put, if you don't do it, you have no DKP. That's it. No /w = no DKP for latecomers and early leavers. We mean it. You won't even get the attendance stat. It's as if you didn't exist in that raid. No attendance, no DKP, nothing.

*Stand-By DKP*
Often members may be asked to sit out for raids due to rotation. Raid composition is very important for progression and sometimes having more of one class may make learning an encounter much easier. When asked to sit out even though you have signed up for the current raid, you will be awarded the same amount of points as raiders in the instance (NOTE: no boss down DKP). However, being on stand-by is NOT self-declared. Only the Raid Leader and/or Assistant Raid Leaders can ask a raider to be on stand-by. You DO NOT self-declare that you will be on stand-by. Such action implies you have no interest in raiding and will not be invited for subsequent raids.

*Being on Stand-By*
After sorting out who's on stand-by, raiders are allowed to go on their alts or to PUG some simple instances*. If you chose to log off WoW, be contactable for subbing at all times. Generally, AIM is the cheapest form of communication rather than a long distance phone call. If you are un-contactable when you are required to substitute a certain raider, stand-by DKP will be voided (unless valid reasons are given).
*If you choose to PUG an instance, please let your group know in advance that you are on standby for a 25-man raid, and will need to leave immediately when called upon to sub in.

Miscellaneous
- Some raiders might find themselves in the negative zone after taking one or two items. This is to ensure that there is no inflation of DKP. Established members will still get priority over loot. Currently, loot priority is as follows on ALL raids: MT/OT have the highest priority. Off-spec loot would be scaled to 50% of the original DKP value, to be rounded down to the nearest integer.
- Sometimes it is inevitable that a raider has to raid with his/her alt so that the raid can carry on. However, the said member who's using his/her alt is sacrificing a lot because potential gear that he/she needs could be forsaken since he/she's on the wrong character. Hence, in order to cater to the nice people who are willing to sacrifice for the guild, everytime someone is asked to play their alt to ensure raid progression, they will accrue 1 extra DKP per raid hour. NOTE: You DO NOT choose or claim to play your alt for the 25-man raid, it must be a RL/ARL request.
- Applicants are awarded DKP but are not awarded loot. Initiates are awarded DKP but lose to member priority.

Much of this DKP system came from justanotherguild.org

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Cratchet on Fri May 16, 2008 3:48 am

looks good to me

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Craiggles on Fri May 16, 2008 4:00 pm

Sounds great.

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Guest on Fri May 16, 2008 4:17 pm

I don't like the "list of how much each item is worth," I would prefer a silent bid system, thus capping how "negative" a raider can go (if our progress is good, we WILL have people going negative, it is inevitable with an item-worth list)

I don't think MT should get preference on all gear, as gearing out a healer (IE: warriors and priests share the same tier items) can be as effective as gearing out a tank.

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Lunariann on Fri May 16, 2008 4:19 pm

Maybe but theres normally more than one healer on the main tank so its easier overall to just gear the MT and in the process make all the healers' lives easier. That's how 90% of the guilds out there do it anyway.

I like this system personally, but I'm gonna wait til we definitely know if we're going with item value or silent bid simply because for item value I have a LOT of html to code to get a working list for us and don't wanna do all that only to have it not be used.
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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Guest on Fri May 16, 2008 4:41 pm

It would just be nice, as a healer who has obtained all but 3 peices of gear via badges and tailoring, to know that I don't have to wait for the 3d or 4th Vashj kill in order to get the only gear from SSC that is a decent upgrade.

That's another reason why I like the silent bid, because I can forsee that those of us who worked hard to get our gear will get a lot of DKP stored up, and we don't want to be outrolled on the very few items that are actual upgrades by somone who has only the required DKP.

Example: Banning T5, the only upgrade for me is the "Luminescent Rod of the Naaru." Now say I go to every raid, and accumlate 44 DKP by the time that we down Tidewalker. Ned needs multiple items from SSC, attends half the raids, and accumlates 22 DKP. MuttonButton specs holy for some reason, attends all the raids, but uses 14 DKP on the "Wraps of Purification." All of us have the required 18 DKP, and in your system, a roll would determine it. In a silent bid, I should win, and I think that is fair.

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Zillaana on Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm

A silent bid was what I initially wanted to do, but other's were against that. We're not at T5 content yet and I found this system that I liked. We have plenty of time to modify it. Does anyone else have any comments or input?

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Lunariann on Fri May 16, 2008 4:57 pm

what if we were to combine the two? have the value as a minimum required dkp to bid on the item, but if somebody with a lot of dkp really wants it compared to somebody with the bare minimum as chuck said, they could put in some pre-determined extra amount (say, 10% rounded down) as a \"raise\" so to speak. ie playerA and playerB both want item xyz which costs 20 dkp, playerA raises their offer to 22, playerB could then reraise it to 24 and so on until somebody gives in.

personally i like the item value method better because it gets the looting over and done with fast so we can move on, but as long as the system is effective i\'ll go with what everyone agrees on.

oh, and note i mean a 10% increase on the new price. so that aforementioned reraise was 22*110%=24.2 rounds down to 24


Last edited by Lunariann on Fri May 16, 2008 5:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Guest on Fri May 16, 2008 5:00 pm

It would be time consuming, but that would be fun, and isn't that what WOW is all about?

I vote yes for mike's idea!

Carl is gonna hate us.

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Zillaana on Fri May 16, 2008 5:08 pm

so an open bid system?

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Guest on Fri May 16, 2008 5:28 pm

Not, its an item-value system, with special extra-fun time wagering!

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Kiiva on Fri May 16, 2008 7:31 pm

You've obviously put a lot of thought into this system, and I'm sure you've discussed the use of DKP with your guild members ad nauseum. However, I just wanted to put in my $0.02. Remember, I'm not even a full fledged member of the guild.. still in the initiate/applicant stage.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that my experience with DKP has been overly negative. I can go into details if you would like me to, but I just wanted to propose an officer allocation loot council system. I'm pretty sure most of you are familiar with this system, so there's no need to go into its mechanics. If some of you aren't familiar with it, I'll be happy to explain its intricacies (or lack thereof). Obviously, I don't know if this has been proposed yet, but in my experience as a former guild leader of a server's top guild, the system worked flawlessly and solved many of the problems we faced when we used DKP.

Just my take on the situation.
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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Zillaana on Fri May 16, 2008 9:28 pm

A number of us were in a guild that used a loot council/random 100 system and it worked well most of the time, but as time wore on there were more and more issues with loot. I don't wanna shoot down your comment because we'll probably go to something like that if dkp fails, but we want to try and see how a dkp system would work out.

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Kiiva on Sat May 17, 2008 1:46 am

Sounds fair enough to me! Regardless of what effect the DKP system will have, I'm sure it will cause nothing irreparable since loot isn't exactly very difficult to come by anyways. It was a much bigger issue back in the days of 40 mans and having only one venue at getting geared up.
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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  hermioney on Sat May 17, 2008 2:29 pm

Archonus wrote:I don't like the "list of how much each item is worth," I would prefer a silent bid system, thus capping how "negative" a raider can go (if our progress is good, we WILL have people going negative, it is inevitable with an item-worth list)

I don't think MT should get preference on all gear, as gearing out a healer (IE: warriors and priests share the same tier items) can be as effective as gearing out a tank.

It is important to gear out healers but gearing out your MT is an effective upgrade to all healers since he now takes less dmg by giving the token to healers we only help out one healer. I would stand by the MT policy first. I was a priest too before this lock and i know the pain of waiting for defender tokens but its in the guilds best interest that way.
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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Cratchet on Sat May 17, 2008 3:31 pm

i agree with the open bid system, i like that method. also i'm sorry to say to chuck, but MT/OT should have loot priority over everyone else.

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

Post  Craiggles on Sat May 17, 2008 3:40 pm

Any decent main tank has also gotten all the stuff they could outside of raids as well chuck - otherwise guilds would be failing at kara. And doesn't matter if you have the best healing gear in the game - if the MT gets one shotted, heals won't help.

as far as DKP goes, I think as long as its standardized in some way shape or form we should be alright. Possibly use officers and the such to decide what classes can roll on what items as well due to the bigger benefit towards one class or another.

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Re: DKP IDEA Please Comment

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